1
00:00:00,050 --> 00:00:03,259
Do you believe you did
the things they say you did?
2
00:00:03,260 --> 00:00:06,969
If I did, I wasn't
arrested, I was rescued.
3
00:00:06,970 --> 00:00:08,879
The truth of a confession is
immaterial.
4
00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:12,089
What's important is how
it was obtained.
5
00:00:12,090 --> 00:00:14,649
I'm suggesting Gibson deliberately
provoked him.
6
00:00:14,650 --> 00:00:16,609
How were we to know
she was that desperate?
7
00:00:16,610 --> 00:00:18,249
Now you can add
attempted murder
8
00:00:18,250 --> 00:00:19,559
to her list of charges.
9
00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:21,619
- Are you Sean Healy?
- Yes!
10
00:00:21,620 --> 00:00:23,520
Will you give this to Paul for me?
11
00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:27,149
Paul Spector is due to be
moved today.
12
00:00:27,150 --> 00:00:29,989
The next stage
of his assessments
13
00:00:29,990 --> 00:00:31,510
are about to begin.
14
00:00:33,900 --> 00:00:37,389
Mr Spector.
I'm August Larson,
15
00:00:37,390 --> 00:00:39,549
the lead clinician here.
16
00:00:39,550 --> 00:00:41,149
I need you to go to London.
17
00:00:41,150 --> 00:00:43,789
I don't think we can afford to
dismiss the connection
18
00:00:43,790 --> 00:00:46,579
between David Alvarez
and Paul Spector.
19
00:00:46,580 --> 00:00:49,659
We've had a request
to disclose your dream diary.
20
00:00:49,660 --> 00:00:52,339
He's in hospital,
he's incapacitated
21
00:00:52,340 --> 00:00:54,279
and yet he's still
infecting the lives
22
00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,009
of every person he
comes into contact with.
23
00:00:57,010 --> 00:00:59,139
If a person is able
to do to others
24
00:00:59,140 --> 00:01:01,090
what he fears may
be done to him,
25
00:01:01,530 --> 00:01:03,669
he may no longer be afraid.
26
00:01:03,670 --> 00:01:06,809
Doctor, I understand that for
you he's a patient,
27
00:01:06,810 --> 00:01:10,489
someone worthy of understanding,
compassion, even.
28
00:01:10,490 --> 00:01:14,089
But to me he's a...
He's a sexual predator.
29
00:01:14,090 --> 00:01:16,279
I'm Mark Bailey, who are you?
30
00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,620
I'm told I'm the Belfast Strangler.
31
00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,650
Detective Superintendent Gibson?
32
00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,049
Dr Larson.
What can I do for you?
33
00:01:40,050 --> 00:01:42,039
Mr Spector's defence team
34
00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,119
have sent me some excerpts
from your diary.
35
00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,419
The pages where it is alleged
36
00:01:47,420 --> 00:01:49,250
Mr Spector made an entry.
37
00:01:56,820 --> 00:01:58,120
I see.
38
00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:01,610
I sense your discomfort.
39
00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:04,629
I have no doubt,
40
00:02:04,630 --> 00:02:06,459
after seeing the entry he made,
41
00:02:06,460 --> 00:02:10,789
knowing that he'd read your journal
felt like a violation.
42
00:02:10,790 --> 00:02:12,090
Yes.
43
00:02:12,940 --> 00:02:14,440
May I ask you,
44
00:02:15,380 --> 00:02:17,910
how long have you kept a diary?
45
00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:20,900
All of my life.
46
00:02:22,140 --> 00:02:24,820
But not really since
I've been in Belfast.
47
00:02:25,780 --> 00:02:27,250
I don't follow.
48
00:02:29,180 --> 00:02:32,730
What Spector wrote in was
more of a dream journal.
49
00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,710
Why do you keep a dream journal?
50
00:02:39,380 --> 00:02:41,050
Why do you want to know?
51
00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,050
Curiosity, probably.
52
00:02:45,820 --> 00:02:49,470
Initially, I kept it as an
investigative tool.
53
00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,690
I trained myself to wake up in the
middle of the night and...
54
00:02:55,420 --> 00:02:57,450
..write down random thoughts.
55
00:02:57,920 --> 00:03:00,280
Then I guess since then,
56
00:03:01,450 --> 00:03:04,230
it's become a compulsion,
of sorts.
57
00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,690
So you see dreams as
a kind of problem-solving?
58
00:03:10,420 --> 00:03:12,879
I think maybe the sleeping brain
59
00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:17,700
makes connections more quickly
than the waking mind does.
60
00:03:18,380 --> 00:03:20,420
That is certainly possible.
61
00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,680
I will treat the entries
with respect.
62
00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:28,340
Thank you.
63
00:03:29,700 --> 00:03:31,640
Goodnight, Dr Larson.
64
00:03:32,070 --> 00:03:33,370
Goodnight.
65
00:04:06,470 --> 00:04:08,710
THE FALL
Season 3 - Episode 5 of 6
66
00:04:12,470 --> 00:04:15,450
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd
Sync: trx
67
00:05:18,550 --> 00:05:21,220
Oi!
What's all this!
68
00:06:06,740 --> 00:06:11,609
Paul Spector, a 32-year-old,
right-handed male.
69
00:06:11,610 --> 00:06:13,909
Referred from the
criminal justice system
70
00:06:13,910 --> 00:06:16,629
for appraisal with
regard to his fitness
71
00:06:16,630 --> 00:06:18,890
to plead and stand trial.
72
00:06:20,060 --> 00:06:23,380
The charge sheet gives you
an idea of the alleged crimes.
73
00:06:24,530 --> 00:06:26,189
Shot in police custody,
74
00:06:26,190 --> 00:06:28,259
he underwent a splenectomy
75
00:06:28,260 --> 00:06:30,109
so we should be mindful
76
00:06:30,110 --> 00:06:34,820
of his post-operative condition and
ongoing medical needs.
77
00:06:36,310 --> 00:06:39,179
In hospital,
after regaining consciousness,
78
00:06:39,180 --> 00:06:42,709
he presented with severe
retrograde amnesia
79
00:06:42,710 --> 00:06:46,230
in the absence of significant
anterograde amnesia.
80
00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,900
I'm told Paul Spector never knew
his biological father.
81
00:06:51,620 --> 00:06:54,749
His mother, Mary Garrison,
82
00:06:54,750 --> 00:06:58,700
committed suicide
when he was eight years old.
83
00:07:00,300 --> 00:07:02,000
She hanged herself.
84
00:07:03,580 --> 00:07:06,309
After a period of two years
in a foster home
85
00:07:06,310 --> 00:07:11,020
that appears to have been a
stable and safe environment,
86
00:07:12,100 --> 00:07:15,289
he was transferred to
Gortnacull House.
87
00:07:15,290 --> 00:07:17,140
He was there for three years.
88
00:07:18,180 --> 00:07:21,849
At 13 he was sent to
another home in the South -
89
00:07:21,850 --> 00:07:24,520
Dundalk, County Louth.
90
00:07:25,340 --> 00:07:28,649
Apart from a very
agitated first wake up
91
00:07:28,650 --> 00:07:31,899
and a violent emotional response
92
00:07:31,900 --> 00:07:36,129
to being presented with
some of the evidence against him,
93
00:07:36,130 --> 00:07:40,369
the hospital reports him having been
docile,
94
00:07:40,370 --> 00:07:44,140
co-operative - friendly, even.
95
00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,889
It is also very possible
he is someone who acts out
96
00:07:48,890 --> 00:07:52,059
in a dangerous and illegal manner.
97
00:07:52,060 --> 00:07:56,100
The police officer
Detective Superintendent Gibson...
98
00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:00,729
..who at this stage might well be
the person who knows him best,
99
00:08:00,730 --> 00:08:05,090
suggests he has a narcissistic,
sadistic personality.
100
00:08:05,900 --> 00:08:09,279
With regard to his memory loss,
101
00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,149
he could be feigning,
102
00:08:11,150 --> 00:08:15,990
exaggerating or simply malingering.
103
00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:21,229
So I suggest we approach Mr Spector
with...
104
00:08:21,230 --> 00:08:23,890
respectful scepticism.
105
00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,039
The daily structure is 8 to 9,
breakfast,
106
00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,089
9 to 10, self-care tasks,
107
00:08:31,090 --> 00:08:33,559
washing, dressing, laundry,
bed-making.
108
00:08:33,560 --> 00:08:36,389
10 to 12 is therapy or
a 45-minute activity -
109
00:08:36,390 --> 00:08:38,049
art, music whatever.
110
00:08:38,050 --> 00:08:40,079
12 to 2 is lunch and rest period.
111
00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,819
2 to 4 is therapy or further
activity -
112
00:08:43,820 --> 00:08:46,209
life skills, relaxation,
113
00:08:46,210 --> 00:08:48,349
self-awareness,
cooking.
114
00:08:48,350 --> 00:08:51,719
5 to 6.30 is dinner and rest.
115
00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,869
And 6.30 to 9.30 is leisure - pool,
watching a movie.
116
00:08:55,870 --> 00:08:58,729
Back in your room at 9.30.
Lights out at 10.
117
00:08:58,730 --> 00:09:01,439
Dr Larson will see you
later this morning.
118
00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,210
Collect your breakfast there.
119
00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,709
- All right? Eh, wee fry.
- Just a wee one.
120
00:09:06,710 --> 00:09:08,010
You all right, mate?
121
00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,599
- Ma'am.
- Yeah.
122
00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:42,880
I have a copy of the letter
you asked for.
123
00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:45,540
Thanks.
124
00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,379
I probably shouldn't
write this letter to you
125
00:09:58,380 --> 00:10:01,219
but this is hard evidence
to you that I exist,
126
00:10:01,220 --> 00:10:03,690
exist for you, Paul.
127
00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,109
I can feel you all over me,
128
00:10:06,110 --> 00:10:08,429
like that night in your study,
129
00:10:08,430 --> 00:10:12,749
I feel you crawling through my
veins, through my mind,
130
00:10:12,750 --> 00:10:15,740
you grab and suffocate
my thoughts.
131
00:10:16,230 --> 00:10:19,639
I am in pain for your pleasure.
132
00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:21,369
I have forsaken my friends,
133
00:10:21,370 --> 00:10:23,630
I have forsaken my family,
134
00:10:24,750 --> 00:10:27,220
I am choosing my next move
carefully.
135
00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,399
Their love is fake.
136
00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,950
Fuck everyone who wants me
to step into the light.
137
00:10:33,770 --> 00:10:36,119
It will burn my skin off.
138
00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,329
The skin that I will carve our
poetry into
139
00:10:38,330 --> 00:10:40,160
so you will be with me for ever.
140
00:10:41,540 --> 00:10:45,469
I yearn for you when I stare into
the starless midnight.
141
00:10:45,470 --> 00:10:47,670
You are the vast expanse
of the sky.
142
00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,400
I don't regret a thing,
because the pain is all for you.
143
00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:54,309
I will still love you
144
00:10:54,310 --> 00:10:56,649
when I finally know
everything about you.
145
00:10:56,650 --> 00:10:58,000
That's true love.
146
00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:01,559
I fucking hate this.
147
00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:03,799
I hate being without you.
148
00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,809
I would kill them all if I could.
Crush them.
149
00:11:06,810 --> 00:11:09,280
Crush them and their pathetic
lives.
150
00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:19,899
Ma'am,
my client accepts
151
00:11:19,900 --> 00:11:22,050
that she
has breached her bail conditions.
152
00:11:22,390 --> 00:11:24,669
Her attempts to contact
Mr Spector,
153
00:11:24,670 --> 00:11:26,929
the fact that she stayed away from
her home address,
154
00:11:26,930 --> 00:11:28,729
breaching her curfew.
155
00:11:28,730 --> 00:11:30,829
But there are mitigating factors,
156
00:11:30,830 --> 00:11:33,120
Ma'am, that I'd like to draw
your attention to.
157
00:11:33,650 --> 00:11:36,609
The defendant lost her father when
she was aged 13
158
00:11:36,610 --> 00:11:38,559
in a motorcycle accident,
159
00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:40,959
a shockingly violent accident.
160
00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,999
She is now just 16 years old
and the best place for her
161
00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,149
to be at this difficult time
is at home.
162
00:11:46,150 --> 00:11:48,659
Her mother,
who is present today in court,
163
00:11:48,660 --> 00:11:49,989
is prepared to stand surety.
164
00:11:49,990 --> 00:11:52,289
I have checked with the police and
they are happy
165
00:11:52,290 --> 00:11:54,629
as to the source of the monies
offered by Mrs Benedetto
166
00:11:54,630 --> 00:11:56,179
to support the suretyship,
167
00:11:56,180 --> 00:11:58,069
namely savings she has
accumulated to...
168
00:11:58,070 --> 00:12:00,250
Mr McSwain,
let me just stop you there.
169
00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,709
Now, your client is not just in
breach of her bail conditions,
170
00:12:04,710 --> 00:12:06,959
she is alleged by the prosecution
171
00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:10,289
to have committed another very
serious offence -
172
00:12:10,290 --> 00:12:13,559
throwing a corrosive fluid with
intent to harm.
173
00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:15,709
Had it not been for the quick
thinking of a friend,
174
00:12:15,710 --> 00:12:17,369
who irrigated her eyes
with a drink,
175
00:12:17,370 --> 00:12:20,459
the victim might well
have lost her sight.
176
00:12:20,460 --> 00:12:22,839
Now, I feel I have no choice,
therefore,
177
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,649
other than to remand her to the Seapark
Juvenile Justice Centre in Bangor.
178
00:12:26,650 --> 00:12:29,609
There she will be appointed
a case manager and a key worker
179
00:12:29,610 --> 00:12:31,169
who can assess her needs.
180
00:12:31,170 --> 00:12:33,629
She will be able to attend school
also, if she so wishes.
181
00:12:33,630 --> 00:12:37,270
I don't care what you do,
or what you think, or say.
182
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,039
The only one who's honest is Paul.
183
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,439
He's the only person I choose
to listen to,
184
00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,480
the only person who sees this world
for what it really is.
185
00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,869
Full of sheep like you being
fattened for slaughter.
186
00:12:51,870 --> 00:12:54,679
Pigs waiting for the butcher.
187
00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:57,359
You have a lawyer to look
after your interests.
188
00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:01,029
Any issues you may have,
you address them through him.
189
00:13:01,030 --> 00:13:04,149
Fuck you. Fuck you all.
190
00:13:04,150 --> 00:13:05,700
Security, please!
191
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,539
You requested all the
Susan Harper files?
192
00:13:17,540 --> 00:13:20,499
- That's right.
- This is everything that we have here.
193
00:13:20,500 --> 00:13:21,800
Well, thank you.
194
00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:38,354
OK,
so this is what I'm thinking.
195
00:13:38,355 --> 00:13:40,189
We lodge civil proceedings
196
00:13:40,190 --> 00:13:42,319
and make an abuse
of process application.
197
00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:43,799
Adverse publicity?
198
00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,349
That certainly, but also police
misconduct.
199
00:13:46,350 --> 00:13:48,839
Specifically,
Detective Superintendent Gibson.
200
00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,909
I want you to draw together all the
strands of police and
201
00:13:51,910 --> 00:13:54,629
prosecution behaviour that
has been questionable.
202
00:13:54,630 --> 00:13:58,479
- Starting with the stage-managed arrest?
- Before that.
203
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,369
From the point the investigation
assumed his guilt and focused
204
00:14:01,370 --> 00:14:03,340
on him and him alone.
205
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:08,169
Stage managing the arrest,
the additional sexual oppression,
206
00:14:08,170 --> 00:14:09,669
the failure to bring
him to court
207
00:14:09,670 --> 00:14:11,199
promptly once he was charged,
208
00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,519
all of it a vendetta from the
start against our client.
209
00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,689
Do you think that adds up to
misconduct of sufficient gravity?
210
00:14:17,690 --> 00:14:19,829
- To warrant a stay?
- Maybe not,
211
00:14:19,830 --> 00:14:21,920
but it will certainly
cause a delay.
212
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,800
We need more than just issues of
competency to work with.
213
00:14:26,110 --> 00:14:29,080
The abuse of process application
more than adds up.
214
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,229
You suspect
215
00:14:33,230 --> 00:14:35,840
that Gibson had a previous
relationship with Burns.
216
00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,599
It seems she has also had liaisons
with other colleagues.
217
00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:42,309
Spector was in the hotel room
218
00:14:42,310 --> 00:14:44,150
when Burns was there
with Gibson.
219
00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,920
Let's assume therefore that Spector
had knowledge of that relationship.
220
00:14:48,790 --> 00:14:50,899
He also had access
to her dream diary
221
00:14:50,900 --> 00:14:54,249
which gave him insights
into her other liaisons.
222
00:14:54,250 --> 00:14:56,079
What if the damage
this could cause
223
00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,699
Stella Gibson's career
was a possible motive
224
00:14:58,700 --> 00:15:02,290
for her failure
to protect him in the forest?
225
00:15:02,630 --> 00:15:05,819
Spector's whereabouts were
leaked by a detention officer
226
00:15:05,820 --> 00:15:07,649
within the custody suite.
227
00:15:07,650 --> 00:15:10,359
What if Gibson was in on that leak?
228
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,719
What if Spector's life
was deliberately
229
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,879
put at risk by Gibson
through police misconduct?
230
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,579
Everyone knew Tyler was
out there with a loaded gun
231
00:15:18,580 --> 00:15:21,749
and a clearly stated aim
to find and kill Spector.
232
00:15:21,750 --> 00:15:23,510
And she let it happen.
233
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:26,020
Let's make her pay.
234
00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:58,640
Do you have your own room key?
235
00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:01,740
No.
236
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:05,740
I do.
237
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,520
I'm allowed to feed the
fish in the aquarium.
238
00:16:14,610 --> 00:16:16,899
I used to help with serving
the meals
239
00:16:16,900 --> 00:16:19,880
but I gave larger portions
to people I liked so,
240
00:16:20,950 --> 00:16:22,920
I'm not allowed to do that any more.
241
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:29,920
I have art today, so...
242
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,250
Wasn't well, better now.
243
00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,030
Wasn't well, better now.
244
00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,879
I don't think there was any
criminal intent.
245
00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,010
She approached you, she invited
you back to her place.
246
00:16:52,620 --> 00:16:54,879
"I'm not saying she was asking
for it necessarily,
247
00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,059
"but we've all been there,
too much to drink,
248
00:16:57,060 --> 00:17:00,269
"one thing leads to another,
things get out of hand.
249
00:17:00,270 --> 00:17:02,979
"We're used to dealing with these
sorts of offences.
250
00:17:02,980 --> 00:17:05,239
"We understand how these
things can happen."
251
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:06,829
What officer is that talking?
252
00:17:06,830 --> 00:17:08,709
Er, this is Rees.
253
00:17:08,710 --> 00:17:10,759
"What did she do to anger you,
David?
254
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,300
"Did she insult you?
What made it turn nasty?
255
00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,589
"Was she still dressed when you
had sex with her?"
256
00:17:18,590 --> 00:17:20,599
"Alvarez: Maybe."
257
00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,500
"She wasn't was she? She was naked.
Did she ask you to tie her up?
258
00:17:23,910 --> 00:17:27,869
"David? Was she into bondage?
Tell us how you killed her."
259
00:17:27,870 --> 00:17:29,719
"I strangled her."
260
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:33,599
"- How did you strangle her?"
"- With my belt."
261
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,829
"You see, David, if you say that,
you're not helping me.
262
00:17:36,830 --> 00:17:39,859
"- You didn't use your belt, did you?"
"- No."
263
00:17:39,860 --> 00:17:41,470
"What did you use?
264
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,589
"Come on, David,
think about what you used."
265
00:17:44,590 --> 00:17:48,069
"Hathaway: You'd taken your
clothes off, David.
266
00:17:48,070 --> 00:17:49,370
"You were naked, weren't you?"
267
00:17:50,300 --> 00:17:51,609
"Yes."
268
00:17:51,610 --> 00:17:53,600
"So what did you use to
strangle her?"
269
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,339
"Just my hands, just my bare hands."
270
00:17:56,340 --> 00:17:58,269
"There were no strangulation
marks
271
00:17:58,270 --> 00:18:00,099
"on her neck, David.
None.
272
00:18:00,100 --> 00:18:02,390
"Were there any pillows on the
bed, David?"
273
00:18:02,860 --> 00:18:04,169
"I smothered her.
274
00:18:04,170 --> 00:18:07,400
"I took a pillow and put it over her
face and smothered her."
275
00:18:07,950 --> 00:18:11,089
I mean, Jesus,
there's leading the witness
276
00:18:11,090 --> 00:18:13,390
and there's shoving
words down his throat.
277
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,360
Why weren't Alvarez's defence
all over this?
278
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,199
I'm afraid the typical
relationship
279
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,749
between a psychiatrist and patient,
where everything that is said
280
00:18:28,750 --> 00:18:31,969
in this room is confidential,
does not apply.
281
00:18:31,970 --> 00:18:34,899
Anything you tell me
can be put in the report.
282
00:18:34,900 --> 00:18:37,979
Because it is the Court that
has asked me to conduct
283
00:18:37,980 --> 00:18:40,879
the evaluation,
you don't have the right
284
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,449
to refuse to participate.
285
00:18:43,450 --> 00:18:45,369
Even if you, for example,
286
00:18:45,370 --> 00:18:47,389
choose not to answer
my questions,
287
00:18:47,390 --> 00:18:51,289
I will still need to provide
the written report that will be
288
00:18:51,290 --> 00:18:55,459
sent to the court and made
available to your lawyer.
289
00:18:55,460 --> 00:18:57,549
If the judge orders a hearing
290
00:18:57,550 --> 00:18:59,259
on the issue of your competency
291
00:18:59,260 --> 00:19:01,720
I might be called to testify
in court.
292
00:19:02,900 --> 00:19:04,539
Do you understand?
293
00:19:04,540 --> 00:19:07,200
Yes, I do.
I will answer your questions.
294
00:19:08,460 --> 00:19:10,019
Good.
295
00:19:10,020 --> 00:19:11,320
That's good.
296
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:15,490
Tom.
Have a look at this.
297
00:19:18,980 --> 00:19:21,700
This was a key part of the
prosecution's case.
298
00:19:22,140 --> 00:19:23,629
That's the victim,
Susan Harper,
299
00:19:23,630 --> 00:19:25,880
and that's David Alvarez
leaving the nightclub together.
300
00:19:32,660 --> 00:19:34,650
Who is that, do you think?
301
00:19:37,020 --> 00:19:40,540
Do you understand the police's
version of events?
302
00:19:41,580 --> 00:19:43,910
The severity of the charges?
303
00:19:45,540 --> 00:19:47,150
Yes, I do.
304
00:19:49,020 --> 00:19:51,290
Do you remember making a confession?
305
00:19:53,900 --> 00:19:55,200
No.
306
00:19:57,900 --> 00:20:01,929
Can you provide a reasonable account
of your behaviour around the time
307
00:20:01,930 --> 00:20:04,180
of the various alleged offences?
308
00:20:05,780 --> 00:20:07,190
No.
309
00:20:09,620 --> 00:20:11,649
Or your state of mind?
310
00:20:11,650 --> 00:20:12,960
No.
311
00:20:20,340 --> 00:20:23,489
Do you think you could manage your
emotions and behaviour
312
00:20:23,490 --> 00:20:25,140
in a courtroom?
313
00:20:27,260 --> 00:20:28,939
I think I could, yes.
314
00:20:28,940 --> 00:20:31,929
Do you think you would be able to
keep track of events
315
00:20:31,930 --> 00:20:34,020
as they unfolded?
316
00:20:36,860 --> 00:20:38,160
Yes.
317
00:20:39,100 --> 00:20:41,999
Would you be able to
challenge witnesses?
318
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:46,530
That is, to recognise distortions
in witness testimony?
319
00:20:49,180 --> 00:20:51,100
No, I wouldn't be able to do that.
320
00:20:52,540 --> 00:20:55,390
Not unless my memory returned.
321
00:20:56,500 --> 00:21:00,489
Do you understand the sentence that
could be imposed on you
322
00:21:00,490 --> 00:21:02,600
if you are found guilty?
323
00:21:04,020 --> 00:21:06,760
I would spend the rest of
my life in prison.
324
00:21:12,060 --> 00:21:14,580
Will my memory return, Doctor?
325
00:21:16,100 --> 00:21:17,620
Do you want it to?
326
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:27,759
I might have something
significant, ma'am.
327
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:29,809
A Peter Baldwin
working as a waiter
328
00:21:29,810 --> 00:21:32,969
in a Caribbean restaurant
called the Plantain Garden.
329
00:21:32,970 --> 00:21:35,179
And the restaurant went bust,
330
00:21:35,180 --> 00:21:39,649
closed in 2008, but the owner still
has his paperwork.
331
00:21:39,650 --> 00:21:43,209
He had reason to give
Peter Baldwin a warning,
332
00:21:43,210 --> 00:21:45,850
a reprimand that stayed on file.
333
00:21:46,420 --> 00:21:50,620
It's dated Saturday August
the 17th, 2002.
334
00:21:52,260 --> 00:21:54,720
The day before the Harper murder.
335
00:21:55,580 --> 00:21:57,519
Why was he reprimanded?
336
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,079
An argument with a customer
that turned nasty,
337
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:01,390
came to blows.
338
00:22:02,460 --> 00:22:04,884
And the owner positively
identified Spector?
339
00:22:04,885 --> 00:22:07,329
I sent him all the photographs
we have on file.
340
00:22:07,330 --> 00:22:09,549
He seems pretty certain.
341
00:22:09,550 --> 00:22:11,760
The restaurant was in SW9.
342
00:22:15,380 --> 00:22:18,420
Susan Harper's flat was in SW16.
343
00:22:19,460 --> 00:22:21,660
That's Brixton and Streatham.
344
00:22:22,820 --> 00:22:24,120
Both in Lambeth.
345
00:23:04,420 --> 00:23:06,520
I will, thanks for letting us know.
346
00:23:14,820 --> 00:23:17,809
The police say they have fresh
evidence to put to Spector.
347
00:23:17,810 --> 00:23:19,989
What sort of evidence?
348
00:23:19,990 --> 00:23:22,179
Forensic, documentary.
349
00:23:22,180 --> 00:23:25,059
Apparently they have found
a lock-up rented by Spector.
350
00:23:25,060 --> 00:23:27,289
They want to interview him
about the contents.
351
00:23:27,510 --> 00:23:28,819
Fuck!
352
00:23:28,820 --> 00:23:31,069
I'll need to see proof of that and
all the information that was
353
00:23:31,070 --> 00:23:33,659
placed before the judge to
get those warrants.
354
00:23:33,660 --> 00:23:35,729
Get back to the PPS first thing
in the morning.
355
00:23:35,730 --> 00:23:37,989
I want full disclosure.
356
00:23:37,990 --> 00:23:40,179
Oh also, contact The Foyle,
357
00:23:40,180 --> 00:23:43,360
see if Larson thinks Spector's fit
to be interviewed.
358
00:23:45,420 --> 00:23:46,720
Fuck!
359
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:51,109
It could be Spector.
360
00:23:51,110 --> 00:23:54,449
Rose Stagg puts Spector in
London at the right time.
361
00:23:54,450 --> 00:23:56,480
22 years old, clean-shaven.
362
00:23:57,430 --> 00:23:59,060
It's hard to tell.
363
00:23:59,650 --> 00:24:00,950
No, it's not.
364
00:24:01,710 --> 00:24:03,010
That's him.
365
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:05,260
I know it's him.
366
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,850
Well, we couldn't quite believe the
interrogation tactics -
367
00:24:09,300 --> 00:24:11,269
a classic old school interview -
368
00:24:11,270 --> 00:24:13,499
trickery, deceit,
psychological manipulation.
369
00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:16,259
Alvarez thought he'd be able to go
home after confessing.
370
00:24:16,260 --> 00:24:17,869
And it seems he fell for it all.
371
00:24:17,870 --> 00:24:19,849
For some reason
he seemed eager to please.
372
00:24:19,850 --> 00:24:22,149
I've no idea why the defence team
weren't all over it.
373
00:24:22,150 --> 00:24:23,960
All the evidence
was pretty strong -
374
00:24:24,350 --> 00:24:27,219
the only other fingerprints
found at her flat were Alvarez's
375
00:24:27,220 --> 00:24:30,759
and the only DNA recovered
from her body was his.
376
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,779
True, but when it comes
to the actual murder
377
00:24:33,780 --> 00:24:35,439
they had to lead him by the nose
378
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,499
to get him
to where they wanted him to be.
379
00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:40,300
He really seemed to lack
detailed knowledge.
380
00:24:40,850 --> 00:24:43,280
I have a good feeling about this.
381
00:24:44,500 --> 00:24:46,950
I can smell Spector's involvement.
382
00:24:49,140 --> 00:24:51,049
And when do you see Alvarez?
383
00:24:51,050 --> 00:24:52,720
In the morning.
384
00:24:53,060 --> 00:24:55,270
Call me with any developments.
385
00:24:56,820 --> 00:24:58,940
- Goodnight.
- Goodnight.
386
00:25:36,660 --> 00:25:40,220
We can order things off the nurses.
387
00:25:40,550 --> 00:25:42,559
They go shopping twice a week.
388
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,060
You just give them the money and
they'll get you the things you want.
389
00:25:47,140 --> 00:25:49,230
I don't have any money.
390
00:25:57,580 --> 00:25:59,040
Why are you in this place?
391
00:26:03,420 --> 00:26:05,340
Don't tell me if you don't want to.
392
00:26:06,500 --> 00:26:08,470
I twisted my sister's arm.
393
00:26:11,500 --> 00:26:13,980
I twisted it so far round it broke.
394
00:26:15,220 --> 00:26:16,740
Why did you do that?
395
00:26:18,940 --> 00:26:21,529
I had a haircut.
396
00:26:21,530 --> 00:26:23,419
It...
397
00:26:23,420 --> 00:26:26,700
gave me a new personality.
It made me more feminine.
398
00:26:27,980 --> 00:26:31,159
I thought I was turning homosexual.
399
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:32,469
When I came home,
400
00:26:32,470 --> 00:26:34,229
my sister said I looked gay.
401
00:26:34,230 --> 00:26:36,229
So I twisted her arm.
402
00:26:36,230 --> 00:26:38,630
She was screaming and I didn't stop.
403
00:26:39,050 --> 00:26:41,379
Then it snapped.
404
00:26:41,380 --> 00:26:43,760
Then I suppose I...panicked.
405
00:26:47,620 --> 00:26:49,400
How old was she?
406
00:26:49,890 --> 00:26:52,099
Younger than me.
407
00:26:52,100 --> 00:26:54,400
- How much younger?
- Quite a lot younger.
408
00:26:59,020 --> 00:27:00,739
What's your diagnosis?
409
00:27:00,740 --> 00:27:03,460
A psychotic with convulsive
disorder.
410
00:27:06,540 --> 00:27:10,390
They say I had childhood
schizophrenia.
411
00:27:11,980 --> 00:27:15,029
I thought there were hidden messages
in the colours of cars
412
00:27:15,030 --> 00:27:16,939
passing on the street.
413
00:27:16,940 --> 00:27:20,109
I started communicating
with car sounds.
414
00:27:20,110 --> 00:27:23,420
And then the sounds turned
into voices.
415
00:27:24,620 --> 00:27:26,419
What kind of voices?
416
00:27:26,420 --> 00:27:31,420
Like...people,
but just out of hearing.
417
00:27:35,700 --> 00:27:38,720
When I'm bad,
I see faces in the mirror.
418
00:27:40,860 --> 00:27:42,580
The risperidone helps.
419
00:27:46,940 --> 00:27:49,329
How long have you been in
this place?
420
00:27:49,330 --> 00:27:51,539
Five years.
421
00:27:51,540 --> 00:27:54,980
I was on the news, but not like you.
422
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,900
It's time to go to your room now,
Paul.
423
00:28:19,900 --> 00:28:21,849
12, is the answer to your question.
424
00:28:21,850 --> 00:28:23,159
What?
425
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,689
Mark Bailey's sister.
12 years old.
426
00:28:25,690 --> 00:28:28,050
And he left out the best bit.
427
00:28:30,020 --> 00:28:31,779
After he broke his sister's arm,
428
00:28:31,780 --> 00:28:35,139
he raped her, then carried her
into the street,
429
00:28:35,140 --> 00:28:38,580
threw her into a passing bin lorry
that crushed her to death.
430
00:28:40,340 --> 00:28:42,250
The dregs of humanity.
431
00:28:43,500 --> 00:28:44,800
Sweet dreams.
432
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:10,620
Anderson.
433
00:29:12,660 --> 00:29:14,850
It's Assistant
Chief Constable Burns.
434
00:29:15,450 --> 00:29:17,250
Good evening, sir.
435
00:29:19,020 --> 00:29:22,129
I understand you're seeing
Alvarez tomorrow?
436
00:29:22,130 --> 00:29:23,430
Yes, sir.
437
00:29:31,740 --> 00:29:35,289
I thought I might tell you something
about Gortnacull
438
00:29:35,290 --> 00:29:37,239
that might be useful.
439
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,180
Thank you, sir.
440
00:29:42,620 --> 00:29:44,100
I remember...
441
00:29:45,010 --> 00:29:46,319
..when I arrived there,
442
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,700
being struck by how
grand-looking it was.
443
00:29:52,260 --> 00:29:55,669
Lovely gardens, outside pool,
444
00:29:55,670 --> 00:29:58,560
views over Belfast Lough.
445
00:29:59,430 --> 00:30:02,859
Apparently so much
more than the boys
446
00:30:02,860 --> 00:30:05,110
would have been used to
at home in Belfast.
447
00:30:07,620 --> 00:30:09,744
Just off the entrance hall
448
00:30:09,745 --> 00:30:11,860
there was a large dining room.
449
00:30:15,020 --> 00:30:17,739
All the boys we interviewed
450
00:30:17,740 --> 00:30:21,100
told of how they were
taken there every day...
451
00:30:23,140 --> 00:30:24,979
..and made to masturbate
452
00:30:24,980 --> 00:30:27,650
to entertain the staff members.
453
00:30:28,980 --> 00:30:32,379
Masturbate themselves,
454
00:30:32,380 --> 00:30:34,320
masturbate members of staff.
455
00:30:38,660 --> 00:30:41,070
We did fluorescence tests
on the carpet.
456
00:30:44,420 --> 00:30:46,350
It was covered in stains.
457
00:30:50,220 --> 00:30:52,319
David Alvarez was there
458
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,049
at the same time
as Paul Spector...
459
00:30:56,050 --> 00:30:57,940
as Peter Baldwin.
460
00:31:00,500 --> 00:31:02,580
He would know about that.
461
00:31:06,100 --> 00:31:08,300
He would remember that dining room.
462
00:31:17,340 --> 00:31:19,180
That-that was all.
463
00:31:21,740 --> 00:31:23,100
Just...
464
00:31:27,620 --> 00:31:29,020
That was all.
465
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,559
I just took a call from the
DPP, ma'am.
466
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,889
It seems that Sean Healy
has lodged a complaint against you
467
00:32:28,890 --> 00:32:30,419
with the Police Ombudsman.
468
00:32:30,420 --> 00:32:31,729
I see.
469
00:32:31,730 --> 00:32:34,480
Also an abuse of process
application.
470
00:32:37,380 --> 00:32:39,300
You'd better give me the details.
471
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,619
This is my client, David Alvarez.
472
00:32:52,620 --> 00:32:55,059
David, this is Detective Sergeant
Tom Anderson
473
00:32:55,060 --> 00:32:57,940
and PC Dani Ferrington.
474
00:32:58,570 --> 00:33:01,869
Thanks very much for
talking to us, David.
475
00:33:02,170 --> 00:33:03,530
I haven't yet.
476
00:33:06,300 --> 00:33:08,369
You understand that
it's in connection with
477
00:33:08,370 --> 00:33:10,000
your conviction for murder?
478
00:33:11,380 --> 00:33:14,539
- Frazer's explained, yes.
- Good.
479
00:33:14,540 --> 00:33:16,999
I wonder, do you recognise this man?
480
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:18,939
For the purposes of the tape,
481
00:33:18,940 --> 00:33:22,460
I'm showing David a picture
of a male individual.
482
00:33:25,340 --> 00:33:27,139
I do, yes.
483
00:33:27,140 --> 00:33:29,060
What name do you know him by?
484
00:33:31,020 --> 00:33:32,439
Peter Baldwin.
485
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,180
How do you know Peter Baldwin?
486
00:33:36,740 --> 00:33:39,089
We were in Gortnacull House
together.
487
00:33:39,090 --> 00:33:40,650
When was that?
488
00:33:41,900 --> 00:33:46,279
Ah, I was there from 1990 to 1994.
489
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:47,859
I'm a year younger than him.
490
00:33:47,860 --> 00:33:50,509
Right.
And when was the last time
491
00:33:50,510 --> 00:33:51,910
that you saw Peter Baldwin?
492
00:33:54,980 --> 00:33:56,659
In 2002.
493
00:33:56,660 --> 00:33:59,379
- Where was that?
- In London.
494
00:33:59,380 --> 00:34:01,829
And what were the circumstances
of that meeting?
495
00:34:01,830 --> 00:34:04,239
- Was he there at your invitation?
- No, we met by chance.
496
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:05,919
The last time I'd seen him was
497
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,609
at Gortnacull when I was 12.
498
00:34:08,610 --> 00:34:11,390
At Gortnacull with Father Jensen.
499
00:34:13,060 --> 00:34:16,509
Perhaps we can talk about
the period in your life
500
00:34:16,510 --> 00:34:19,109
before you were first incarcerated.
501
00:34:19,110 --> 00:34:21,860
When you compiled your own map
of Dundalk.
502
00:34:25,100 --> 00:34:27,619
What do you want to know?
503
00:34:27,620 --> 00:34:30,270
When did that behaviour
begin for you?
504
00:34:31,500 --> 00:34:33,129
What behaviour?
505
00:34:33,130 --> 00:34:34,700
The voyeurism.
506
00:34:36,980 --> 00:34:40,659
Around that age. 13 or so.
507
00:34:40,660 --> 00:34:45,060
What were you seeking, do you think,
in behaving in that way?
508
00:34:46,500 --> 00:34:47,800
Relief.
509
00:34:49,980 --> 00:34:51,389
From?
510
00:34:51,390 --> 00:34:52,920
Boredom.
511
00:34:54,020 --> 00:34:55,460
Loneliness.
512
00:34:56,580 --> 00:34:59,689
It was exciting that they were...
513
00:34:59,690 --> 00:35:01,930
unsuspecting, unaware.
514
00:35:02,700 --> 00:35:05,879
Because of the possibility
of seeing someone naked,
515
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,489
or disrobing,
516
00:35:08,490 --> 00:35:11,099
or engaging in sexual activity?
517
00:35:11,100 --> 00:35:13,620
No, not just that.
518
00:35:15,500 --> 00:35:16,860
Then what?
519
00:35:19,180 --> 00:35:20,850
Seeing into homes.
520
00:35:22,940 --> 00:35:25,139
Real homes.
521
00:35:25,140 --> 00:35:27,700
Comfortable, warm.
522
00:35:29,460 --> 00:35:33,130
A glimpse into lives being led.
523
00:35:34,380 --> 00:35:35,900
Full lives.
524
00:35:38,380 --> 00:35:41,179
I'd imagine myself in those homes,
525
00:35:41,180 --> 00:35:45,089
as part of those lives,
at the dinner table...
526
00:35:45,090 --> 00:35:48,659
watching television
with the fire on.
527
00:35:48,660 --> 00:35:52,780
How did it make you feel,
being on the outside looking in?
528
00:35:54,980 --> 00:35:56,340
Lonely.
529
00:35:57,660 --> 00:35:59,060
Angry?
530
00:36:01,180 --> 00:36:02,560
Yes.
531
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:05,700
Aroused?
532
00:36:12,580 --> 00:36:15,140
When did you start breaking in?
533
00:36:22,340 --> 00:36:24,300
When I'd built up the courage.
534
00:36:25,740 --> 00:36:27,620
How did you do that?
535
00:36:28,500 --> 00:36:30,180
I'd get closer to them.
536
00:36:31,860 --> 00:36:33,160
How?
537
00:36:35,060 --> 00:36:36,660
I'd telephone them.
538
00:36:37,900 --> 00:36:40,549
Deliver their newspapers.
539
00:36:40,550 --> 00:36:43,139
Ride with them on the bus.
540
00:36:43,140 --> 00:36:47,180
Once, I even carried
a woman's shopping home for her.
541
00:36:48,780 --> 00:36:52,300
Were the break-ins spontaneous,
or did you plan?
542
00:36:53,420 --> 00:36:56,890
I made extensive, elaborate plans.
543
00:37:00,500 --> 00:37:03,379
I discovered that it was easy.
544
00:37:03,380 --> 00:37:06,429
For the most part, people feel safe.
545
00:37:06,430 --> 00:37:09,179
They forget to turn the alarm on,
546
00:37:09,180 --> 00:37:11,860
leave windows open, patio doors.
547
00:37:13,620 --> 00:37:15,770
I didn't want anyone to feel safe.
548
00:37:17,420 --> 00:37:19,460
Why should they have that luxury?
549
00:37:20,500 --> 00:37:23,809
We just hung out.
We drank, we took drugs.
550
00:37:23,810 --> 00:37:25,329
What sort of drugs?
551
00:37:25,330 --> 00:37:27,069
Coke, mainly.
552
00:37:27,070 --> 00:37:28,740
Where was this?
553
00:37:30,380 --> 00:37:32,779
In Brixton.
554
00:37:32,780 --> 00:37:37,480
We shared a flat in Brixton,
in Coldharbour Lane.
555
00:37:42,100 --> 00:37:45,129
Were you with Paul Spector...
556
00:37:45,130 --> 00:37:46,939
Peter Baldwin...
557
00:37:46,940 --> 00:37:49,650
on the night that
Susan Harper died, David?
558
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:55,560
We think you were.
559
00:37:57,920 --> 00:37:59,909
I'm producing a lap top
560
00:37:59,910 --> 00:38:04,350
showing CCTV
footage of Exhibit NS1.
561
00:38:07,620 --> 00:38:10,749
Taken from Edenvale Road,
London, SW9,
562
00:38:10,750 --> 00:38:14,920
on Sunday the 18th of August 2002
at 1:45am.
563
00:38:16,740 --> 00:38:18,319
We think that's Paul Spector,
564
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,500
leaving the club with you and Susan
on the night that she died.
565
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,329
So your interest in voyeurism
566
00:38:28,330 --> 00:38:30,249
gave way to a desire to
567
00:38:30,250 --> 00:38:32,859
break into the observed space?
568
00:38:32,860 --> 00:38:36,940
To violate those individuals
in a more intimate way?
569
00:38:39,020 --> 00:38:42,740
You're thinking that the voyeurism
was a...
570
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:49,139
..precursor to more aggressive
sexual deviancies?
571
00:38:49,140 --> 00:38:52,059
No,
I'm just trying to understand
572
00:38:52,060 --> 00:38:55,430
the progression of your criminality.
573
00:39:00,820 --> 00:39:03,699
I thought I'd put it all behind me.
574
00:39:03,700 --> 00:39:07,609
When I married Sally Ann.
When Olivia was born.
575
00:39:07,610 --> 00:39:11,249
I thought that was all in the past,
576
00:39:11,250 --> 00:39:14,019
troubles of my youth.
577
00:39:14,020 --> 00:39:16,489
But now I'm being told that
578
00:39:16,490 --> 00:39:18,100
it was the opposite.
579
00:39:19,460 --> 00:39:22,540
Like an addict,
I'd gone from bad to worse.
580
00:39:25,780 --> 00:39:30,049
In my view, those distortions
originate from
581
00:39:30,050 --> 00:39:32,420
a variety of places in childhood.
582
00:39:33,500 --> 00:39:35,800
Childhood victimization.
583
00:39:36,820 --> 00:39:39,060
Faulty family relationships.
584
00:39:40,420 --> 00:39:43,660
General psychological distress.
585
00:39:45,020 --> 00:39:47,220
They are not so easily dealt with.
586
00:39:48,620 --> 00:39:50,190
Not without help.
587
00:39:51,580 --> 00:39:54,620
They are not so easily cast aside.
588
00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:02,850
Did you confess because you
felt guilty about the offence?
589
00:40:04,380 --> 00:40:05,680
Maybe.
590
00:40:07,180 --> 00:40:08,480
Maybe, yes.
591
00:40:09,540 --> 00:40:11,140
Or to protect someone?
592
00:40:15,980 --> 00:40:18,380
You see, David,
when I look at this interview...
593
00:40:19,940 --> 00:40:21,980
..like...I can see you've...
594
00:40:23,300 --> 00:40:26,699
..you've no idea
how the murder took place.
595
00:40:26,700 --> 00:40:29,099
You don't even know
if there was a murder.
596
00:40:29,100 --> 00:40:32,279
I can see that you were led
and prompted by the detectives
597
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,620
in a shameful
and unprofessional manner.
598
00:40:35,860 --> 00:40:38,020
It's time to tell the truth, David.
599
00:40:42,140 --> 00:40:44,369
I have here the transcript
of that interview,
600
00:40:44,370 --> 00:40:46,579
dated the 22nd of August 2002.
601
00:40:46,580 --> 00:40:50,140
"Reese - Why was there a washing-up
bowl by the bed, David?"
602
00:40:51,070 --> 00:40:53,299
"- What?"
"- A plastic washing-up bowl."
603
00:40:53,300 --> 00:40:54,609
"I don't know."
604
00:40:54,610 --> 00:40:57,219
"What colour was that bowl?"
"Blue?"
605
00:40:57,220 --> 00:41:00,010
"Were you cleaning up the scene,
washing your hands, what?"
606
00:41:00,390 --> 00:41:01,699
"I was stoned."
607
00:41:01,700 --> 00:41:04,289
"- So now you were stoned?"
"- I'd been drinking."
608
00:41:04,290 --> 00:41:07,449
"So what colour was the bowl?"
609
00:41:07,450 --> 00:41:11,569
"Grey? Green? Brown?"
610
00:41:11,570 --> 00:41:13,820
"Green, David, yes."
611
00:41:23,860 --> 00:41:26,580
I think I know
why that bowl was there.
612
00:41:29,090 --> 00:41:33,060
And it relates to the modus operandi
of Paul Spector, Peter Baldwin.
613
00:41:37,580 --> 00:41:40,729
Are you sure he killed
all those girls?
614
00:41:40,730 --> 00:41:42,290
Yes, we are.
615
00:41:43,940 --> 00:41:46,220
Why are you protecting him, David?
616
00:41:50,660 --> 00:41:53,500
No-one has any idea
how bad Gortnacull House was.
617
00:41:56,660 --> 00:41:58,340
Only those that were there.
618
00:42:00,820 --> 00:42:04,929
- I have some idea.
- No, you fucking don't.
619
00:42:04,930 --> 00:42:06,230
Then tell me.
620
00:42:07,980 --> 00:42:11,420
Tell me, David.
Tell me about the dining room.
621
00:42:13,020 --> 00:42:14,980
Was there morning assemblies?
622
00:42:19,980 --> 00:42:22,619
How do you know about that?
623
00:42:22,620 --> 00:42:25,579
One of my colleagues
was the arresting officer
624
00:42:25,580 --> 00:42:28,060
who put Jensen and
several others in prison.
625
00:42:31,620 --> 00:42:33,969
And they did forensic tests there,
626
00:42:33,970 --> 00:42:36,849
and they found the carpet
in that room
627
00:42:36,850 --> 00:42:39,420
covered in semen stains.
628
00:42:45,340 --> 00:42:46,640
David?
629
00:42:48,420 --> 00:42:50,660
Is that something
that happened to you?
630
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,549
Did you have to masturbate
in front of other boys,
631
00:42:54,550 --> 00:42:55,850
staff?
632
00:42:58,860 --> 00:43:01,389
- Everyone did.
- Peter Baldwin?
633
00:43:01,390 --> 00:43:02,780
I said, "Everyone did."
634
00:43:07,940 --> 00:43:09,620
Me, Pretty Boy...
635
00:43:12,620 --> 00:43:15,040
..everyone did,
at one time or another.
636
00:43:16,130 --> 00:43:17,699
Pretty Boy?
637
00:43:17,700 --> 00:43:20,020
- Jensen's name.
- For Spector?
638
00:43:22,220 --> 00:43:24,480
For Baldwin, Spector, whatever.
639
00:43:28,980 --> 00:43:30,860
Jensen always had a favourite.
640
00:43:32,620 --> 00:43:34,659
A boy of about 12 or 13 years of age
641
00:43:34,660 --> 00:43:38,089
that he would single out
for his special attentions.
642
00:43:38,090 --> 00:43:40,569
And the tradition was
that when he was leaving,
643
00:43:40,570 --> 00:43:43,010
a special boy had to
nominate his successor.
644
00:43:46,860 --> 00:43:50,100
So Jensen and Baldwin
came to our dormitory one night.
645
00:43:53,220 --> 00:43:56,460
Peter was due to leave,
and Jensen made Peter choose.
646
00:44:03,260 --> 00:44:05,100
He could have chose me.
647
00:44:07,940 --> 00:44:11,849
He looked straight at me.
Straight at me.
648
00:44:11,850 --> 00:44:13,880
Jensen looked straight at me.
649
00:44:14,700 --> 00:44:18,020
And I knew Jensen wanted me.
I felt it.
650
00:44:22,060 --> 00:44:26,089
But Peter walked straight past me
and chose another boy.
651
00:44:26,090 --> 00:44:28,519
I don't know who, some poor fuck.
652
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:30,440
I didn't look, I didn't even care.
653
00:44:31,620 --> 00:44:36,060
Just as long as
it wasn't me.
654
00:44:40,820 --> 00:44:44,769
Being Jensen's favourite
was the worst thing...
655
00:44:44,770 --> 00:44:47,260
the worst thing you can imagine.
656
00:44:50,660 --> 00:44:52,160
David...
657
00:44:55,340 --> 00:44:58,729
..are you certain
that Baldwin, Paul Spector,
658
00:44:58,730 --> 00:45:00,620
was Jensen's favourite?
659
00:45:03,780 --> 00:45:05,320
For a full year.
660
00:45:08,660 --> 00:45:11,060
Every night and every day
for a full year.
661
00:45:19,940 --> 00:45:22,780
Do you know why your mother
took her own life?
662
00:45:27,820 --> 00:45:30,929
Because my love
wasn't enough for her,
663
00:45:30,930 --> 00:45:34,540
enough to...keep her alive.
664
00:45:38,380 --> 00:45:41,220
Whenever I was ill, as a child...
665
00:45:43,340 --> 00:45:45,980
..she'd take me into her bed
and care for me.
666
00:45:47,300 --> 00:45:49,340
And Baldwin would sleep in mine.
667
00:45:50,980 --> 00:45:52,980
And when he left, she was...
668
00:45:54,380 --> 00:45:57,740
..so sad that I slept in there
with her, every night.
669
00:46:00,700 --> 00:46:04,200
Just me and her in the world.
670
00:46:05,860 --> 00:46:09,210
The car lights would sweep across
the ceiling...
671
00:46:10,940 --> 00:46:12,660
..and I'd imagine that...
672
00:46:14,300 --> 00:46:17,620
..we were on a raft together
drifting in the water.
673
00:46:20,220 --> 00:46:24,200
Just me and her in the world
but we had each other.
674
00:46:27,780 --> 00:46:31,540
I still remember her smell,
the smell of her clothes.
675
00:46:37,180 --> 00:46:39,240
On my eighth birthday...
676
00:46:40,900 --> 00:46:42,980
..after he'd left...
677
00:46:44,180 --> 00:46:47,820
she told me that...
he wasn't my father.
678
00:46:49,700 --> 00:46:51,760
That my real father...
679
00:46:53,380 --> 00:46:55,020
..unreal father...
680
00:46:56,700 --> 00:47:00,860
..was a British soldier
who was gone before I was born. Hm.
681
00:47:03,860 --> 00:47:07,800
That was her...birthday gift to me.
682
00:47:10,620 --> 00:47:12,670
Ten days later, she was dead.
683
00:47:16,300 --> 00:47:18,300
Were you the one to find her?
684
00:47:24,220 --> 00:47:26,000
It was a school day.
685
00:47:29,020 --> 00:47:31,489
She wasn't there at the gate
to pick me up,
686
00:47:31,490 --> 00:47:33,350
so I walked home.
687
00:47:34,140 --> 00:47:38,020
Rang the doorbell,
there was no answer.
688
00:47:40,020 --> 00:47:42,180
But there was a key under the mat,
so...
689
00:47:43,620 --> 00:47:45,180
..so I let myself in.
690
00:47:48,300 --> 00:47:52,600
I shouted out, there was no reply.
The radio was on.
691
00:47:55,660 --> 00:47:57,220
I looked around.
692
00:47:58,820 --> 00:48:00,680
I went upstairs...
693
00:48:02,420 --> 00:48:05,219
..pushed against her bedroom.
694
00:48:05,220 --> 00:48:08,370
There was a...thump
against the door.
695
00:48:10,940 --> 00:48:13,180
So I pushed more until I got in.
696
00:48:15,380 --> 00:48:18,620
And...she was on
the back of the door...
697
00:48:21,980 --> 00:48:23,860
..belts around her neck.
698
00:48:27,300 --> 00:48:29,830
I shouted at her,
but there was no response.
699
00:48:33,460 --> 00:48:36,889
I didn't know if
she was dead or alive.
700
00:48:36,890 --> 00:48:40,320
I called 999.
The ambulance men came.
701
00:48:42,580 --> 00:48:43,880
They...
702
00:48:44,860 --> 00:48:46,860
..they told me to wait in my room.
703
00:48:48,780 --> 00:48:50,960
I looked out the window and...
704
00:48:51,740 --> 00:48:54,169
..I remember this red blanket
that they used
705
00:48:54,170 --> 00:48:56,330
to cover her
when they wheeled her out.
706
00:48:58,540 --> 00:49:02,050
All that day, people came and went
707
00:49:03,070 --> 00:49:05,480
and nobody told me
what had happened.
708
00:49:07,420 --> 00:49:11,500
Then later someone said that
she'd "gone to a better place."
709
00:49:15,220 --> 00:49:18,379
I suppose I knew she was dead but...
710
00:49:18,380 --> 00:49:21,180
there was a part of me that
thought maybe she was alive...
711
00:49:22,820 --> 00:49:24,470
..living elsewhere...
712
00:49:25,660 --> 00:49:28,680
..in a better place
because I wasn't there.
713
00:49:31,100 --> 00:49:33,029
The last memory I have of her,
714
00:49:33,030 --> 00:49:35,529
she was very angry with me,
715
00:49:35,530 --> 00:49:38,309
angry for something I'd done.
716
00:49:38,810 --> 00:49:40,160
I don't know what.
717
00:49:44,020 --> 00:49:47,099
You know you worked
on a suicide helpline
718
00:49:47,100 --> 00:49:48,400
for some years?
719
00:49:50,380 --> 00:49:51,680
No.
720
00:49:53,540 --> 00:49:54,900
You did.
721
00:49:56,340 --> 00:49:59,260
And, of course,
as a bereavement counsellor.
722
00:50:00,620 --> 00:50:02,419
Why were you drawn
723
00:50:02,420 --> 00:50:04,190
to that line of work,
do you think?
724
00:50:09,260 --> 00:50:11,640
Something morbid in me, I suppose.
725
00:50:15,460 --> 00:50:17,220
After my mother died...
726
00:50:19,540 --> 00:50:23,609
..I had this...recurring dream.
727
00:50:23,610 --> 00:50:25,260
I was lying in a coffin...
728
00:50:27,420 --> 00:50:29,860
..and I was cut up into...
729
00:50:31,780 --> 00:50:33,510
..small chunks.
730
00:50:36,540 --> 00:50:39,929
But there was a nerve
that ran through every piece
731
00:50:39,930 --> 00:50:41,820
that was connected to my brain.
732
00:50:45,620 --> 00:50:47,820
That sounds very frightening.
733
00:50:50,340 --> 00:50:53,619
Why would he take
the blame, David Alvarez?
734
00:50:53,620 --> 00:50:55,899
Why would he do that
for Spector?
735
00:50:55,900 --> 00:50:57,860
Beyond the debt of gratitude?
736
00:50:59,300 --> 00:51:00,949
It's clear he felt guilty.
737
00:51:00,950 --> 00:51:02,749
He was part of it, after all.
738
00:51:02,750 --> 00:51:05,229
He wrote long rambling letters
of apology
739
00:51:05,230 --> 00:51:07,139
to Susan Harper's parents
from prison.
740
00:51:07,140 --> 00:51:09,299
In his interviews he seems
very vulnerable...
741
00:51:09,300 --> 00:51:10,719
and suggestible.
742
00:51:10,720 --> 00:51:12,699
I guess he's toughened up
in prison,
743
00:51:12,700 --> 00:51:14,729
but I wonder
744
00:51:14,730 --> 00:51:18,489
if he didn't get off
on it in some way at the time.
745
00:51:18,490 --> 00:51:20,359
He seemed very flattered
by the detectives'
746
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:22,219
"boys will be boys" bullshit.
747
00:51:22,220 --> 00:51:26,289
And, suddenly, he was the centre
of attention, a kind of celebrity.
748
00:51:26,290 --> 00:51:29,419
Oh. Have you spoken to Chris George?
749
00:51:29,420 --> 00:51:31,749
Is he going to want
a Met officer to sit in on any
750
00:51:31,750 --> 00:51:34,189
further interviews regarding
the Harper murder?
751
00:51:34,190 --> 00:51:36,209
He's happy for you
to represent the Met,
752
00:51:36,210 --> 00:51:38,009
and he said he'll back us
753
00:51:38,010 --> 00:51:40,169
if we reopen the Alvarez
investigation.
754
00:51:40,170 --> 00:51:42,619
That's great news.
755
00:51:42,620 --> 00:51:45,319
We're seeing Spector tomorrow
to put the new evidence
756
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:47,809
from the lock-up to him.
When are you back?
757
00:51:47,810 --> 00:51:50,629
First thing. I'll go straight to
the Serious Crime Suite.
758
00:51:50,630 --> 00:51:53,400
- Good work, Tom.
- Let's hope so.
759
00:53:09,780 --> 00:53:12,090
Detective Superintendent Gibson.
760
00:54:00,620 --> 00:54:02,449
This interview is being recorded
761
00:54:02,450 --> 00:54:03,910
at the Down Serious Crime Suite.
762
00:54:04,270 --> 00:54:06,549
The date is the 16th of May 2012
763
00:54:06,550 --> 00:54:09,569
and the time,
by my watch, is 1400.
764
00:54:09,570 --> 00:54:12,839
I'm Detective Sergeant Anderson,
and the other police officer present
765
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:15,249
is Detective Superintendent
Gibson.
766
00:54:15,250 --> 00:54:17,599
Can you please state your
full name and date of birth?
767
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:21,739
Peter Paul Spector,
25th of May 1979.
768
00:54:21,740 --> 00:54:25,100
- And also present is?
- Sean Healy, solicitor.
769
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:27,579
And at the conclusion
of the interview
770
00:54:27,580 --> 00:54:30,929
I'll give a notice of how
you can obtain a copy of the tapes.
771
00:54:30,930 --> 00:54:32,679
You do not have to say anything,
772
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:35,089
but I must caution you if you
do not mention when questioned
773
00:54:35,090 --> 00:54:36,699
something you later
rely on in court,
774
00:54:36,700 --> 00:54:38,100
it may harm your defence.
775
00:54:38,450 --> 00:54:40,609
If you do say anything,
it may be given in evidence.
776
00:54:40,610 --> 00:54:42,369
Do you understand the caution?
777
00:54:42,370 --> 00:54:44,219
Yes.
778
00:54:44,220 --> 00:54:46,659
We have reason to believe
that you rented
779
00:54:46,660 --> 00:54:51,329
a lock-up as a storage unit
in the name of Peter Baldwin.
780
00:54:51,330 --> 00:54:54,960
I'm showing a lease agreement
for that lock-up.
781
00:55:01,220 --> 00:55:03,160
Is that your signature
on the document?
782
00:55:08,370 --> 00:55:09,729
For the benefit of the tape,
783
00:55:09,730 --> 00:55:12,069
Paul Spector has declined
to answer the question.
784
00:55:12,070 --> 00:55:13,449
So, in that lock-up,
785
00:55:13,450 --> 00:55:15,409
along with a car
we believe you stole,
786
00:55:15,410 --> 00:55:18,269
we found a number of items
that we'd like you to account for.
787
00:55:18,270 --> 00:55:20,809
Now, we believe that
these...documents,
788
00:55:20,810 --> 00:55:23,969
these diaries or journals,
are your work.
789
00:55:23,970 --> 00:55:26,619
I'm showing exhibit ME369,
790
00:55:26,620 --> 00:55:29,590
which is a journal,
and also
791
00:55:30,450 --> 00:55:32,720
a copy of the contents
of the journal.
792
00:55:33,660 --> 00:55:38,289
Now...are you able to identify
the subject of this journal,
793
00:55:38,290 --> 00:55:41,330
a woman with the initials RW?
794
00:55:46,980 --> 00:55:49,299
- No.
- This is pointless.
795
00:55:49,300 --> 00:55:51,499
My client is undergoing assessment
796
00:55:51,500 --> 00:55:53,749
because he is suffering
retrograde amnesia
797
00:55:53,750 --> 00:55:55,969
which covers
all autobiographical memory
798
00:55:55,970 --> 00:55:58,420
for a period of six years or so.
799
00:55:59,620 --> 00:56:01,979
Then perhaps you recognise this man?
800
00:56:01,980 --> 00:56:04,889
I'm showing a photograph
of a male person.
801
00:56:04,890 --> 00:56:06,379
What's this?
802
00:56:06,380 --> 00:56:09,469
We believe he was with you
in Gortnacull Children's Home
803
00:56:09,470 --> 00:56:11,904
and that you met him again
804
00:56:11,905 --> 00:56:14,729
in 2002,
in London,
805
00:56:14,730 --> 00:56:16,119
which is a period that falls
806
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:18,899
outside the timeframe
of your purported amnesia.
807
00:56:18,900 --> 00:56:21,429
What has this got to do with
the contents of the lock-up?
808
00:56:21,430 --> 00:56:23,260
Before my client answers...
809
00:56:24,420 --> 00:56:27,529
..could you please explain
the relevance of this photograph?
810
00:56:27,530 --> 00:56:30,759
This man is, at present, serving
a life sentence for a murder,
811
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:32,839
a murder he committed in 2002.
812
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:35,919
Even then, I'm sorry, but it falls
outside the scope of this interview.
813
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:39,460
The murder of this woman. I'm showing
a photograph of the female victim.
814
00:56:43,020 --> 00:56:47,840
DCI Eastwood has just entered
the room at 14:03.
815
00:56:49,380 --> 00:56:53,849
Paul Spector,
I am further arresting you
816
00:56:53,850 --> 00:56:55,900
for the murder of Susan Harper
817
00:56:56,430 --> 00:56:58,599
at Flat 16 Thornton Rise,
818
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:03,539
SW16 3CV, on the
18th of the eighth, 2002.
819
00:57:03,540 --> 00:57:06,309
I must remind you
that you are still under caution.
820
00:57:06,310 --> 00:57:08,219
I insist this interview
be suspended.
821
00:57:08,220 --> 00:57:09,979
I must take instruction
from Mr Spector.
822
00:57:09,980 --> 00:57:11,909
Do you recognise this man?
Do you know his name?
823
00:57:11,910 --> 00:57:14,330
- David Alvarez.
- This interview stops now.
824
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:18,609
Interview has been suspended
at 14:04
825
00:57:18,610 --> 00:57:20,980
so that Paul Spector can consult
with his solicitor.
826
00:57:35,460 --> 00:57:37,730
Who the fuck is David Alvarez?
827
00:57:39,060 --> 00:57:41,419
Just as they've said,
828
00:57:41,420 --> 00:57:43,169
someone I knew
when I was a child
829
00:57:43,170 --> 00:57:45,369
and then again
in London in 2002.
830
00:57:45,370 --> 00:57:48,169
A convicted murderer?
831
00:57:48,170 --> 00:57:50,220
- Yes.
- What is going on?
832
00:57:55,420 --> 00:57:57,060
The police have been clever.
833
00:57:59,580 --> 00:58:03,050
They have something on me
that I can actually remember.
834
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:21,660
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